Plots Fire and Venture Revising.

Thread in 'Game-Related' started by Pendzez Zazkex, Apr 25, 2009.

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  1. Ok, My story Fire and Venture has been stopped entirely. Now, the admins tell me that there are lots of changes needed to be done, and I mean lots. I had things about Gods in there, that's been cleared up as we speak. However, I need help to help with those changes. Also, something as a bit of expansion to the plot. Now, I've a list of things needed to be explained more or changed:

    Firstly things start off as Pendzez(Demi-God) is killed by Reda and his soul was retained from passing into the Fronima. After centuries, Likian made the Zazkex and said that Pendzez(Demi-God) will come to the planet.
    Hion and Jufrow were first created, but Jufrow wondered away, while Hion remained to keep his word. The Sol Crest was given to Hion. Likian gave Hion instructions and twelve soul orbs to put the souls of himself and his descendants in them. Now, after a couple of years, Jufrow raised an army of Daemons to control Ramath, but Hion and his followers broke the daemon defense and defeated Jufrow, however, Jufrow cursed Hion's soul saying that he'll return when Hion's soul orb has been found. Jufrow's soul went to the Fronima, where he waited for that day to come. a Millennium later, Pendzez(Pendragon) comes in. With new companions, he sets out to find his ancestor's soul orbs for his Sol Crest. When he obtains the twelfth one(Hion), Jufrow returns, regaining energy and rebuilding his daemon army. Pendzez fights back and so does the world. Pendzez becomes face to face with Jufrow. They fight each other, but Jufrow shrouds Pendzez in thick darkness. Pendzez sees a hand reaching out to him. Pendzez gets out. Pendzez temporarily regains his Demi-God abilities. Defeats Jufrow and condemns him to the Nothing.

    This is the plot so far. So, something that runs along this plot, but making it plausible. Now the touch ups:

    A God's decision being the foundational work of the plot. Something to be explain to become plausible.

    Jufrow, how did he get a daemon army at his disposal?

    Jufrow's Daemon Army in the History Compendium. Something to explain about.

    How does Hion break the Daemon defense and what happens afterwards.

    Jufrow's fall and Hion's Victory in the History Compendium.

    Soul Orbs. Something to be explained to become plausible.

    Some touch ups on Likian, Hezekiah, and Pendzez. Likian in particular. Something explained to be plausible.

    Likian retaining his brother's soul from passing into the Fronima. Explaind more deeply to be plausible.

    The Sol Crest touched up. Explained more to be plausible

    What happens while finding the soul orbs of Pendzez's ancestors?

    Daemon Attcks. Explaining more deeply.

    Further explaining of what happens in the fight against Jufrow. With what and how?

    Pendzez Zazkex's near-death in the darkness touch up.

    The shining hand scene touch up. Who's hand is it?

    Pendzez temporarily regaining his Demi-God abilities. Something explained deeply to be plausible.

    Pendzez's power rehibernates within him again. Further explaining

    What would happen after the fight is over?

    How would the story end?

    Now, anyone who is willing to come in and lend a hand are absolutely welcome. Also, you can offer your ideas to help expand the plot abit. These guidelines are crucial however.

    *They allow fairness on the boards
    *They put no one person above the other
    *They create consistency and flexibility
    *They are accommodating enough for all walks life, religion, ethical and political views and opinions.
    *They appeal to most age groups. We have had a member of staff in her mid to late 30s, married, playing here.

    Also, if you wish to make a sub-story that hinges off a certain part of the plot are welcome, but I must have acknowledgement of it first.
  2. To make it absolutely clear to anyone who posts help, at this time the Soul Orbs and Sol Crest concept isn't being allowed in its current format, because there's a lot that's missing from the idea to make it - as DED's been reiterating - plausible. The main idea of the soul orb/crest, from what I gather, is to store and collect souls. So to anyone who does pitch in to help specifically on the soul orbs/crest idea, I strongly advise you to back up what you say with some research into spirits/ghosts/souls, what they are, theoretically what comprises a soul, and any scientific way of possibly retaining it. I'll happily trawl through pages you reference, because I would like to see more things added to Ramath-lehi. Needs to make sense though.

    One other thing to be added to the list is, not only does Pendzez somehow gain Godly knowledge, but he then loses it again - so the question to which that gave rise was, "How did he gain Godly powers, what did that do to him (physically, psychologically and/or emotionally), and how did he lose it again in such a way he had no memory of even having Godly powers?". As DED is quite determined to have this in his plot and he's putting it to those on the board to help him out, then I'll put it to you too, if you do help out, that if you stick closely by these regain-loss guidelines you're requested to think it through and include possible nuances that may occur. What we're talking about is essentially planning it down to the nth degree so neither I or Jodie can turn around and pick enough fault with it like I've done so far.

    One last bit to clarify. I am actually against the idea of allowing any player to play the reincarnation of a Demi-God, let alone allow that charrie to regain his or her Godly powers, despite losing them again. So bear in mind that any help you give on this one should be explained well enough that I go back on disallowing it. That's not to put you off, that's to let you know my stance as the Mod. Jodie agrees with me on this and (as far as I know) every other point. The advice was to scrap the thread entirely, and return to the drawing board with Jodie and I to assist in development.

    DED: I hope you're not running the -same- plot through now, because that's not what I'd call "scrapping and starting anew".
  3. With the God ability Alex, when Pendzez is in the dark, when he sees the shining hand, he hears, "Don't give up yet, Pendzez." After which, he feels this power in him, then at that point, his Godly power has been regained, then he's out of the dark. Now, when he loses it, it's when he uses the Solar Cannon ability. However, he couldn't use it as a normal Pendragon because of his age and magic level, it would be uncontrollable and there's a high chance that it could kill. However, since he'll have his deity power, he can control the attack on Jufrow, after which, Jufrows is condemned to spend eternity in the Nothing. That's when his power vanishes, or hibernates back within Pendzez to put it simply, however, he does get weak, very weak. However, when he regains, he remember about the shining light, the power, but after that, that will leave a gap between the power and when he regains himself.

    Anyways, plz post your ideas that would help in the plot development, expansion, and fix ups. Keep in mind what the guidelines are and what Alex just said. Now, anyone, I say anyone, can contribute their ideas. Whether you are someone starting out, or you are a staff member.

    If you wish to make a sub-story that hinges off a certain part of the plot later on in the main story, or a spin-off plot to put it simply, PM me and we'll have a talk about it. E.g. something like that's happening when Pendzez is fighting Jufrow, if you're having one your charries fighting some daemons around the same time and the same place. Something like that.
  4. I have an idea for the Soul Orbs to make them plausible in my opinion. (Dumu will have to check up on this to see if it can work. Gah! can't fine the player trades anywhere, so bear with me. here goes...)

    When a pendragon dies their soul will leave the body and go to fronima. The way I see it is that there would be a few seconds when the soul of the deceased is able to be recaptured and put into an object. This would be done by a group of 'dragons (usually around 3 or 4) that would use their trade to put the soul in an object connected to fronima much the same way that the male pendragon's tail is and be able to maintain that 'dragons individuality inside this object because it has enough of a link to fronima to be a place for a soul to dwell but at the same time it has a certain amount of connection with fronima blocked so that the soul contained doesn't merge with it. This would, to the 'dragons soul contained, be very emotionally hard because of that desire to go to fronima entirely.

    Since I can't think of a trade that would fit into this category it's still imperfect. If I had reference to the trades I might be able to find one. If either Dumu or Shriker find any fault in this, tell me please and what I could to to revise it in a way that would work.

    I'll come up with more ideas later.
  5. Questions: Solar Cannon ability? And the point about hearing words and regaining his power - well, I already knew that part =) Not sure how he would able to receive any such powers, even if we presume it can happen that way. So far, you've stated in different words what I already know. Additionally, I'm not keen that a player's character will have nested in them any powers (dormant or otherwise) similar to that of a God/Demi-God. The key thing to bear in mind, DED, is that we've got to take the entire thing - strip it down - and take it back to the start.

    This is how I view the plot, in a basic format:

    Y'know... when I talk about basics, I don't mean "tell me what I already know". I mean, let's see a core concept, and nail out the details once we're happy about the concept. Now, I don't know what you'll think of my summary above, but it's how I understand it to be, with my own little twists in there to keep things interesting, playable and within the rules.

    FlyingWeaselMan: The principle is intriguing, and personally I can believe that the soul can remain in suspended animation for a moment before it's made its way into Fronima. But to entrap a soul for that period of time, I would suspect that there would need to be a continued, concerted effort to maintain a soul; as you said it would want to be in Fronima. One would have to keep adapting to the want and need of the soul in such a way that the level of magical stamina required would be... incredible.. Jodie has the final say on this matter.

    My own view of a soul/spirit/ghost is that it's an essence or an energy of someone who's passed over (of course) who is out of phase with our own existence, allowing them to do things that we don't think are possible and as such are incapable of doing. I said earlier about "suspended animation" and I think that ghosts are a fine example of this; they remain for a purpose and are focused on that purpose, as if it's all they have left. In some cases - especially those whose life ended due to trauma or violence - a spirit will relive that moment in their previous life, either through pain or through trying to escape it. If it is the case that the soul in question for this thread is murdered, then I would suspect that the soul would not exactly be at peace. Additionally, if the soul is not at peace, then I would find it difficult (but not impossible) to believe it could be controlled. To control it, you would need to understand what's going on with it, if anything at all. And how can you do that if you only have a few seconds? This isn't to knock the idea, because Fronima is a good defence, and can hold up rather well, but what I want to know is how can it be controlled, considering the situations surrounding its demise? With that in mind, I'd also like to point out that souls can (re)visit people in their sleep, so is it absolutely necessary that A) Pendzez is reincarnated, B) That it's withheld?
  6. Alex, I understand your concern about this. However like you said
    Ok, now how can we take this piece of paper, scrunch it up and bin it, and taking a new piece of paper, however making sure that it would run the same line as the last one. Personally, I would like it to run along the same line, but making sure that it, and making sure that's it's within the rules, is, how would we put that together to make a new plot?

    Another thing, your summary. It's complicating for me. Is there a possiblility that it came be made into more sense for me.

    Well explained F.W.M.

    Alex, the soul/spirit/ghost, from my view, isn't just the energy of someone who has passed. It would also be the memories, the thoughts, and the lifeforce of that life-form. Lets say that the body was a vessel that was to house the soul/spirit/ghost. The body would have the requirements to contain it. When the body dies, the soul/spirit/ghost would leave the body. There would a short moment before it would pass into the Fronima. Now, lets say that a body could hold two souls. It wouldn't be impoosible if let's say that you mistaken someone's urn as milkshake mix. You drink it. That would be a way to have a second soul. Now, being born with two souls would be something interesting to talk about. It wouldn't probably be inpossible, because it be like a split personality. Now, let say that a God's/Demi-God's soul was reincarnated in a normal Pendragon. It would very very very very rare event, and it wouldn't be impossible. However, explaining it would be difficult. Now, it would safe to say that this God's soul has be hidden deep within the body of this Pendragon who is the vessel, under the normal soul, however, the thing that we would have to becareful of is saying when the that soul uses the body. That would be one of the main topics to discuss and explain about for this plot. It wouldn't be impossible, like I said before, but making sure that it doesn't cause problems is what we would have to make sure about.
  7. When I said to strip the entire thing down and start from the beginning, I didn't mean, "Throw the whole thing away". I literally meant to strip down the flourishes and pretty-pretties surrounding the plot, and tell me the whole thing without names and places, but merely as a concept.

    The summary takes the essence of your entire plot and squishes it right down into an IC format. I've left out the enormous detail of Gods, Demi-Gods, Demi-Gods occupying bodies and sharing soul space (which... is iffy), saving souls and Sol Crests and soul orbs... I left out all the questionable stuff. That might be why it's complicating to you, it might not.

    On the mention of ghosts and spirits - i.e. how they also maintain the memories - I agree with you on that =) But I disagree with how a soul can occupy the space of an already occupied vessel. How you described it makes sense, but the concept doesn't add up.

    A spirit, in my view, is ectoplasm when in its visual state. Otherwise, it has an electro-magnetic energy which can alert you to its presence. I'm not saying that ghosts and spirits are electro-magnetic. I don't know what comprises them, per se. I have a theory as to what contributes to their existence and how we perceive them, but I can't prove it, which is where you come in. You're adamant you want this feature in your plot: so, to be blunt, prove it; prove the idea. I will not budge on the topic of a playable Demi-God character.

    Instead of pursuing this idea of a spirit occupying the same space as another, I advise you to come up with an alternative if you can't show me something that explains it better, and only then will I budge.

    Tell me... why are you so attached to the idea of your character being a Demi-God? You know the rules don't allow it. Quite simply, it does allow your character to God Mode. Nowhere have you told me what abilities he'll have, to what end, the kind of destruction he can cause... I'm without details on that aspect, apart from a Solar Cannon ability - whatever that is. It sounds like something lifted from Dragonball Z.
  8. I knew you would ask me that question sooner or later. Putting aside the current situation for now, I'm going to give you a reasonable answer. Like I said before, I wanted to have the God's involved in the story because they are hardly even talked on any post. With the Demi-God deal, though it is against the rule, I thought that it would be a good mix to the whole Ramath-lehi development. I'm not trying to be better than every one else by rping as a Demi-God. Ramath is having good developement with the plots from the past to present time, but I thought of this as something of a big event. Something that would put a mark on RaL history for the future of Ramath, if Ral continues on for that amount of time I'm thinking of right now. Now, like any normal member, I tried to help contribute to RaL's developement, that's when this idea hit me. Something that would help.

    That pretty much explains it, from my view.
  9. Okay, I understand you want to contribute to Ral and I commend you for that. You acknowledge though that it is against the rules to play a God-like character. So can we work out a way that we might be able to have Demi-Gods or Gods play a role - either directly or indirectly - which affects the outcome of the plot? I'll ask this.. are you ready to give up your Demi-God reincarnation idea in place of a more workable supplement?
  10. Well... I guess we can work something out to have a Demi-God part. However, replacing the reincarnation part is a ball buster. What would be something that would replace it Alex?
  11. The easiest thing is to invoke an NPC or PC with a Master rank who can tag along for whatever reason and who can play an important role in allowing your charrie(s), and anyone else, to gain an advantage over whomever is resurrected and whomever comes through from Fronima.

    On a side note, Jodie mentioned to me about how we used to have a Fronima forum, in which it was pretty well a free-for-all. Now, I'd forgotten about it, but IF that forum comes back, then you won't need to reshape your plot TOO much.

    At this stage then, I would prepare two small plots that are equally easy to adopt quickly. One to play in the absence of a Fronima forum, and the other as a back up, IF the Fronima forum comes back. MASSIVE IF, k?

    So like I said, the easiest thing to do is get a high ranking player character involved, or an NPC. There are already a number of NPCs in the Shadowlack user account, so you can take a look there first if any would fit the bill. I haven't taken a look recently, so I'm not sure who's there any more, apart from a select handful. Otherwise, failing that, I suggest you come up with an NPC with an adequate amount of skill to adopt such a mantle, but to not completely overwhelm the scenario.

    Uh, right.. that deals with how a player character or non player character can take the task on. To get the Gods involved, essentially what needs to happen is that you run by me and Jodie what kind of intervention is required, who needs it, when it's needed, in what form it can realistically take (remember the greatest of prayers can be the ones that go unanswered), and what little bit of a nudge it can do to HELP things along - and not totally dominate the situation.

    If we talk about the topic of Gods in general, Gods are beings who have removed themselves from the ordinary goings on of every day life; they are not wrapped up in the petty squabbles between peoples, and have a simpler view on things. They see the start and the end simultaneously, and they would offer opportunities to achieve the end goal. To the Pendragons going about their business, it may seem like things don't turn out very well, but that's where the ability to learn from their experiences comes into play, and can make them better people. Gods are not likely to dip their hand into a situation so deeply that they are controlling it, but are more likely to make someone aware of an opportunity which, if seized, could afford someone a chance to gain an advantage.

    When you say your character would receive Godly powers, that just doesn't make sense because it's an all-too-convenient cop out plot twist which is a bit like saying, "My charrie scored all top marks in his exams, because the Gods gave him the answers. Without those answers, my charrie would never have managed to launch the satellite to talk to the Gods".. I mean.. it's not a good reason as it's unbalanced. So if we're going to talk about the Gods, I'm of the mind that the Gods will play an important, but minimalistic, role, and even then I would suggest that it's non-specific.
  12. Master rank for what trades? Not only that, but what do you mean by "allow"?

    I don't know anything about a Fronima thread, so she'll have to fill me in on that.

    I'm still don't why I would need a master ranked charrie involved anyway. You'll have to explain.

    Alex, letting you know this now, I'm not keen of giving up the reincarnation idea. I understand about going over the God stuff with you and Jodie, but why explain what a God is? I'm getting confused now.
  13. Here's why: a reincarnated God in a playable character is a godly character and that breaks the rules. There will be no thread that breaks the rules, as far as I can help it.

    Master rank character: to take the place on some level of a very powerful reincarnation of a Godly character. They won't have the same level of Godly ability, but they will be experts in their field. Such areas could be Sightless Fighting, Daemon/Darkness Lore, Summoning.

    Allow: Such intervention by a powerful (N)PC could potentially draw the attention of any enemy towards such a powerful energy source, view it as a threat, and -potentially- aim to kill it so there can be no threat to the enemy. This would allow main characters in the plot to hatch a plan or some kind and bring down the enemy while its distracted.

    I know you're not keen to give up the reincarnation idea, but I've already said that you need to to carry on with this plot or any plot closely linked to it. So I don't see where there's room for debate.

    What about the idea of possession? That's a middle line isn't it? (Credit to Secret Destiny for that input)
  14. I have an idea that could also help with the reincarnation idea. Instead of having the characters being demi-gods, why not just have them as very well known and powerful servants of their gods that through the years came to be immortalized in myths and legends as demi-gods. This would allow Pendzez to be a reincarnation of someone who isn't a god and therefore you wouldn't be god moding.

    One thing I forgot to add in the part about the Soul Orbs. The 'dragons put in them could not go unwillingly. They know the price for staying in those objects. Also I said that the objects would be linked to fronima much the same way that a pendragon's tail is linked to it. Wouldn't that be why it is able to sustain a soul and also enough to keep the energy needed to acomplish the task?
  15. Alex, can't we work this one out because the Master Ranked charrie isn't really my thing. Come to think of it, why did you even say it if you said that a reincarnated God in a playable character is a godly character and that breaks the rules?
  16. Uh - because I never said that I approved of a reincarnated God in a playable character. You don't appear to be understanding me, so I'll say it again more bluntly:-

    Gods and Demi-Gods, reincarnated as playable characters, aren't allowed. Full stop.

    Can we move on from this point, now?

    What I meant for you to understand, when I talked about "directly/indirectly affecting the plot", was working a way that the required deities can assist in some way the outcome of the plot, by doing something like drawing the attention of characters towards something which gives them a chance to achieve something else. I'm being vague deliberately, because A) it's fruping early, B) you don't appear to be giving up the idea of reincarnation (which won't bode well for the plot at all unless we can come to a compromise) and C) I don't want you to go off half cocked.
  17. This is all getting out of hand, and was, really, rather out of hand to begin with. At least from what I gather, people seem to understand what's happening, even if there's a lot of resistance.

    Fire and Venture can not exist as a plot at Ramath-lehi. There are way too many plot holes when it comes to relating it to the world of Ramath-lehi. This is why we decided to cut it off entirely. It just can't exist. So I honestly would like you to drop everything related to the plot, and start a new one. Elements from the old plot may resurface, but what we need is something that actually adheres to the Ramathian world and makes sense.

    So Fire and Venture ends completely here. Now let's brainstorm ideas for the new plot.

    Key things to remember are that:

    • Re-incarnated gods in any form cannot exist. Specially if they are played controlled.
    • Actual souls of pendragons cannot be bound to items and resist the pull of Fronima. All souls eventually have to go to Fronima (unless eaten by the Rapine). However, items can be enchanted. Perhaps even, with an essence of a pendragon's soul, but not a real soul.
    • Souls cannot return from the Nothing.
  18. I cannot tell you how upset I am now.
  19. I'm sorry, but that's just how it has to be. You didn't clear this large plot with us to begin with (and as a result, it was taken way too far without being checked). It's partially our own fault for not having better outlines in regards to large-scale plots, as well as partially yours due to not being as familiar with the world as you could be. Which is why we're offering to help you start with it anew.

    Better something than nothing though, eh?
  20. I suppose, but I'm stil abit unhappy.

    Anyway, if we are going to start anew, I would like these ideas thrown in there.

    1. Something epic, that would leave a mark in history.
    2. Something along the end of the world, must be saved line
    3. That has deities in it. (I'm not talking about reincarnations this time.)
    4. Pendzez is the main Protagonist.

    That's, from my view, is what I would like to have in there.

    Jodie, you and I still need to talk about case files Abi can solve, with some outside help.
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